Jim Jones - The Jonestown Massacre

[Ono]

Jim Jones - The Jonestown Massacre:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial4/jonestown/

[diamondgypsy]

Ono, Jim Jones was the first cult leader that caught my attention - besides Jack the Ripper and The Boston Strangler - although they are seriel killers. I even watched the movie but I know 'the real Jim Jones' was not depicted in it. Although I consider him brilliant (are not most brilliant minds psychotic or near psychotic?) and one of the greatest masterminds - he was demented and had no respect for God or for human life - only for himself. I sometimes wonder why scientists do not let those of evil live - so that their minds can be studied to see what comprises - An Evil Mind. Like McVeigh, Ted Bundy, and others - I hold a weird respect for them and feel sorry that they were executed. I know that sounds strange but - what a waste of brilliance in the way of the mind. Who knows what evil lurks in many minds of great smartness - we'll never know because we keep tossing them off this earth to a place where they reign in evil forever.

thanks for the link!

[vperry999]

Actually, his ideas on humanity projects and on ending racism, ageism, sexism, etc. were really good. He also was a spiritual man with many spiritual gifts.

And no, I'm not defending him, but facts are facts. He really did help many folks. He helped the seniors out by opening up two senior citizen homes in Redwood Valley, which won awards. His wife Marceline was an RN and specialized in geriatrics.

He also had "the ranch" which took in mentally challenged young boys. The state sent many of the boys to the ranch. That too was in Redwood Valley.

The man also helped people of many races in the court system, being charged with various things and placed in prisons, some given the death sentence, when it was apparent they were innocent. People's Temple and Jim Jones raised money doing whatever they could, to send the money in for lawyers or whatever was needed.

At the end, Jones was sick and dying. He became addicted to pain killers, speed, morpheine, etc. He was "loopy" to say the least. His refrigerator was filled with more drugs than the local drugstore.

He was truly a dysfunctional person too, always needing a crisis, always wanting people to like him. If you didn't like him, he was angry. He became paranoid at the end too, as is usually the case when on that many drugs. I guess at the end he figured if he was dying, he was taking everyone out with him.

He was an extremely intelligent man too. But, like you said, most are.

[vperry999]

The Jonestown Institute http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/

Primary source documents: (FBI tapes, FCC tapes, transcriptions of tapes) released by court system through Fielding Mc Gehee III of the Jonestown Institute. Personal articles by survivors, their family members and many others.

Since it's such a controversial subject, it's great as it's got many different opinions.

[vperry999]

http://geocities.com/vperry997/jonestownlight

Jonestown: The Town And The People That Built It.
Gives primary source information about the town of Jonestown, and talks about the people that built it. They each had a story to tell and deserved better.

Photo's from FBI FOIA (Freedom Of Information Act) files released by the FBI through the court system. New site still under construction, but will have the transcriptions of the FBI tapes, photographs from the FBI files and educational information about the town and inner workings in daily life.

[Ono]

Thanks for the additions! :)

[kidcanuck]

The phrase "don't drink the kool-aid" comes from this event.

[vperry999]

The phrase "don't drink the kool-aid" comes from this event.

Actually, most people say "you drank the Kool-Aid on that one". Really a stupid phrase, as first of all, it was Fla-Vor-Aid, secondly, it's very cold and unfeeling, uncaring.

Thirdly, it's a phrase used to describe someone that follows someone else...which folks do using this phrase...they follow each other, saying the phrase whether they know what it means or not. So, in a sense, saying "you drank the Kool-Aid" means YOU drank the Kool-Aid. Really stupid to use the phrase, if you think about it. You're following someone else saying the phrase because you thought it funny when you heard it, or you are following the "idea" behind it when used.

[vperry999]

The crime library has a good "report" on Ryan's visit to JT, but is off on quite a few things in the deaths of the community of Jonestown.

Jones did call for a meeting in the pavilion, threatened everyone with "you're all going to be surrounded by GDF and FBI, CIA soon, who will take the babies and torture them". He told them that they will die with dignity in a revolutionary suicide. There was a woman that fought for her life and fought for the children's lives by arguing the point with Jones, recommending they go to Russia. Jones and a SMALL GROUP argued back. There were armed guards all around the pavilion. You had two choices...drink the poison, or get shot.

Although the "report" says there were a few people shot. There were only two shot. Maria Katsaris (one of his "inner circle") and Jones himself (taken from FBI reports and Tim Carter, survivor, and eye witness). Carter saw the bodies in Jonestown, with injection marks on various parts of their bodies, along with Jones and Katsaris who were shot.

Those that did not die willingly were held down and injected. The bodies were put into a "group hug" formation with all of them looking as though they died together, with arms around each other and in a group, with a few exceptions.

My point is that even though something says it's the "story", please take into consideration that NOBODY knows all the "truths" of Jonestown, why it happened, how it happened or exactly in what order things took place. We can only go by documentation, eye witness accounts and photographs. There is so much controversy about the whole story. It's easy to find information on the subject, but difficult to find actual "facts". Just remember to take into consideration most everything out there is either written by people that weren't there that day but have done "research" or others that want to make money off of the story, or others that hear it one way and that's the way they tend to go in their beliefs.

[Ono]

I remember when it happened and watched the news footage of the event, including the shooting of of Senator Ryan.

Terrible.

[kidcanuck]

What's so terrible about watching a politician getting shot..?

I can't think of anything more pleasant.

[Ono]

He had family and children who did care.

[kidcanuck]

So did Jim.

Stephan Ghadi Jones.

He was on the Hour recently.

http://www.cbc.ca/thehour/video.php?id=1459

[Ono]

So what?! He wasn't a victim of mass murder and suicide, he was the instigator and cause. His son said that he thinks that Jones chose to be shot instead of taking the poison, to avoid the painful death his followers were subjected to.

[vperry999]

So did Jim.

Stephan Ghadi Jones.

He was on the Hour recently.

http://www.cbc.ca/thehour/video.php?id=1459

He had a few more children than just Stephan. He had a few adopted children too. They died in Jonestown all by the hands of their father.

[vperry999]

What's so terrible about watching a politician getting shot..?

I can't think of anything more pleasant.

Actually, Leo Ryan was a good person, from what I've heard. He did have family that I've also heard is a nice family.

Ryan was only trying to find out what was going on in the community after hearing about kidnappings, abuse, etc by Jones. He was also known for staying in prison for a few days to see what it was all about. He's a politician that DID something rather than just hear about it and try to make something happen...when ya get around to it like most do.

[vperry999]

So did Jim.

Stephan Ghadi Jones.

He was on the Hour recently.

http://www.cbc.ca/thehour/video.php?id=1459

His name is Stephan GHANDI Jones. Don't know if it was a typo or what.

[vperry999]

[QUOTE=kidcanuck;105469]So did Jim.

Jim had children, which he killed, and tried to get Stephan and Jim Jr. to return so they could die with the rest.

Ryan didn't go in there and kill people. Ryan tried to save people. Big difference.

Politician or not, he was a human being, with others that loved and cared about him.

[kidcanuck]

Let's face it. If Jimbo didn't do what he did this thread would not exists and the phrase don't drink the kool aid would never have been coined.

[Ono]

Tell me you're NOT going to elevate him to hero status a la Manson.

[exitwound]

Let's face it. If Jimbo didn't do what he did this thread would not exists and the phrase don't drink the kool aid would never have been coined.

I think I can speak for a lot of people when I say that we could live with that compromise.

[vperry999]

Let's face it. If Jimbo didn't do what he did this thread would not exists and the phrase don't drink the kool aid would never have been coined.

Wow. Thanks for that waste of time, in reading your post. I really take that as a personal jab, being the life partner of a survivor that made it out that final day, after having his child and wife die in his arms. Go through some life experiences like that first, then talk about a phrase being "coined".

What goes around, surely does come around.

Please, if you're in school, don't drop out. You could use the education. Then live life to the fullest. You could use the humbling and the human experiences.

[short_circuit]

Hi vperry999
What the kid said, I can’t see it as being a personal jab at you if he did not know your circumstances. Did you state your personal circumstances? If you did, I missed it when reading though the post on this thread. I can understand that you have had to live through what happened because your partner’s life was a part of what happened though.

[vperry999]

Hi vperry999
What the kid said, I can’t see it as being a personal jab at you if he did not know your circumstances. Did you state your personal circumstances? If you did, I missed it when reading though the post on this thread. I can understand that you have had to live through what happened because your partner’s life was a part of what happened though.

No, it wasn't stated...although that was just a mean spirited thing to say. Wow.

Stating things like that would and could be seen by any of the survivors or their family members. It was a "not so nice" thing to say, whether it was a personal jab or not. It needs to be remembered that a lot of the survivors do get online and do searches for anything about Jonestown, just to know what is out there. There is no reason to hurt someone that's been hurt so deeply that none of us could fathom it. I just get so tired of seeing really great people being slammed when they are living with so much pain and horrible guilt on a daily basis as it is. It was a nasty thing to say.

I don't take it as the "kid" was saying it directly TO me, but it was a hateful thing to put out for everyone to see, just to be what he/she calls "funny".

[kidcanuck]

How do you feel about all the lies and hurtful things that have been said about uncle Charles Manson..?

[Lonewarrior]

Ah yes Jonestown.....




http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/3439/lefthomestown2keji6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[vperry999]

I truly hope neither of you ever has someone in your family or that you are close to die in a horrible way.

I wish you both well and your families too. Because you two are the first ones that would mentally "lose" it if it ever happened.

Good luck in your lives.

[short_circuit]

LW, at least have a bit of heart sometimes..! :eek:

[short_circuit]

No, it wasn't stated...although that was just a mean spirited thing to say. Wow.

Stating things like that would and could be seen by any of the survivors or their family members. It was a "not so nice" thing to say, whether it was a personal jab or not. It needs to be remembered that a lot of the survivors do get online and do searches for anything about Jonestown, just to know what is out there. There is no reason to hurt someone that's been hurt so deeply that none of us could fathom it. I just get so tired of seeing really great people being slammed when they are living with so much pain and horrible guilt on a daily basis as it is. It was a nasty thing to say.

I don't take it as the "kid" was saying it directly TO me, but it was a hateful thing to put out for everyone to see, just to be what he/she calls "funny".

The statement the kid made was a logical statement and is the same as every News Report and TV coverage, they just would not exist if things don’t happen. It is the logic that most people think, regardless if it is said or not, do we beat ourselves up over it?
What you seem to be saying now is for there to be self censorship and no one, also News Reports and TV coverage, should not say anything about any tragedies?
I watched the move clip the kid posted, the Jonestown Massacre may not have even happened if it was not for the news reporter in the first place.
On the movie clip it showed a news reporter had triggered the tragedy to happen by showing a letter of someone who wanted to leave the camp.

What about 9/11, the amount of things that was said about that across the Internet?
Even them 9/11 coins would not exist if it was not for the tragedy, when people are making money out of a tragedy what do you think about that?

[short_circuit]

How do you feel about all the lies and hurtful things that have been said about uncle Charles Manson..?I would feel great, he was not a victim, he was a perpetrator..! :moose:

[vperry999]

The statement the kid made was a logical statement and is the same as every News Report and TV coverage, they just would not exist if things don’t happen. It is the logic that most people think, regardless if it is said or not, do we beat ourselves up over it?

Yeah, that's the worst part...people think of it in that way. Not every news report and tv coverage shows that type of crap. You should watch the movie, or watch "Most Evil" which is coming on Dec. 22, at 9:00 PM...you should see some of the other programs out there, that are worth watching and maybe you could view it differently.

What you seem to be saying now is for there to be self censorship and no one, also News Reports and TV coverage, should not say anything about any tragedies?

I never said any part of that. All I said is that was a pretty vile way of talking about it. We need to learn from what happened. The people of Jonestown were looked upon as "freaks" and "weirdo's"...they are some of the nicest people around. And since it wasn't a big group hug of dying for the cause, lining up and drinking the Kool-Aid (which is a really stupid statement), then those that think that are really ignorant of the whole situation. I believe everyone should talk about this, everyone should watch some of the shows that are on TV. Why must people say hateful, hurtful, evil, nasty things to other when they are already going through enough pain over the ordeal? They did not kill their family members, but they have to live with the pain of it. There's a difference between discussing the whole story, and just flat out being nasty about it. What about all the good things that Jones and PT did? Does anyone ever talk about any of that?

I watched the move clip the kid posted, the Jonestown Massacre may not have even happened if it was not for the news reporter in the first place.

I'll have to watch that one.

On the movie clip it showed a news reporter had triggered the tragedy to happen by showing a letter of someone who wanted to leave the camp.

Yes, there were a few people that wanted to leave. Jones was drugged up and was getting a bit weird. The concerned relatives, the Congressman coming, etc. was what caused Jones to "freak" in his drugged up stupor and did it...however, there is evidence that he might have had it planned for a while. Jones himself was sick and dying...maybe he wanted to take some people out when he went, who knows?


What about 9/11, the amount of things that was said about that across the Internet?
Even them 9/11 coins would not exist if it was not for the tragedy, when people are making money out of a tragedy what do you think about that?

I don't know what "coined" phrases are made out of that. I find nothing funny about that either.

You know, most of those people were injected with cyanide...did not go to their deaths by drinking it.

[vperry999]

If you're talking about the link with Stephen...it's a good interview. Stephen is a wonderful human being. Great that he turned out so well, with his father being so messed up, although it's just amazing how paranoid certain drugs can make you...add a lot of morpheine and you've got a potential time bomb waiting to go off. So, if Stephen was to see the remark in the earlier one, it would hurt him deeply. That was his family, and his extended family that died there.

The Kool-Aid remark is simply unneeded and nothing but hurtful.

[exitwound]

How do you feel about all the lies and hurtful things that have been said about uncle Charles Manson..?

Uncle Charles..... :lmfao: :favorite: :hellowave: :popcorn:

[kidcanuck]

I was just pointing out the fact that the kool aid comment stems from Jonestown. LW pic is related to all the followers on IH2 who drank lefty's kool aid.

[Lonewarrior]

LW, at least have a bit of heart sometimes..! :eek:I was being funny BUT since you brought that up, those idiots along with Jim Jones were better off dead just like the lunitcs in Waco.
I actually agreed with Dyko Reno tourching the place.
Lets not forget cleaning up Ruby Ridge.

Sometimes dead is better.

[Lonewarrior]

The only ones I feel sorry for that died @ Jonestown were Congressman Ryan his team and the media coving it.