The countdown to 2000 dead GIs in dubya's war thread

[Firecat]

This is my first post on this forum, and I believe this topic is at the heart of any discussion about the Iraq war.

Before Dubya attacked the sovereign nation of Iraq without provocation or just cause, the people of the world and even a majority of Americans believed that the political process as being practiced by the UN should be allowed to run its course. The weapons inspections were underway with several UN teams on the ground. It is now obvious that those teams and that process worked.

Dubya went to the US Congress with "secret" intelligence that "proved" that the US was in imminent danger from Saddam's WMDs. The Congress bought it. But oddly, when Dubya sent Powell to the UN to prove the case, nobody believed the evidence. That is because the case they built was so weak and phony that you'd have to be an idiot to believe it. Also, the representatives from the rest of the world don't have Faux News re-amplifying every lie from the White House into thier heads.

My point of all of this is that the neocon supporters of BushInc are now trying to claim that they are the VICTIMS of bad intelligence. What they really are is just plain idiots.

This thread will be a daily reminder to those morons of the death, destruction, and uncounted billions of dollars that Dubya's war has cost. There have been estimates that 100,000 Iraqis have died in this war, not to mention thousands more wounded. The US has thousands of wounded too. Dubya is going to run the cost of this war up to $200 billion by the second quarter of next year and that doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of unaccounted costs.

Are you HAPPY, neocons? Your lies are destroying the US.

November 15, 2004.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1186.

814 left to reach 2000.

[Anonymous]

HEY PIGFUCK; LOOK WHO HAS SHOWED UP JUST FOR YOU.....

[exitwound]

This could get interesting ;-)

Since this isn't a breaking news thread per se, I'm going to move it, Firecat; it won't be deleted, though.

[Anonymous]

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1186. 814 left to reach 2000.

I'll bet you can't wait! :twisted:

[Lefthome]

Here is your very first award for those intellectual BJ's you give everyone!
http://img88.exs.cx/img88/2531/bj2.gif

[exitwound]

Here is your very first award for those intellectual BJ's you give everyone!
http://img88.exs.cx/img88/2531/bj2.gif

ROFLMAO!!! omg, I need to stop laughing so I can get some air!!!

::::gasp::::

*fallls out of chair* :lol:

[Firecat]

Sadly, another update for November 15.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1193.

807 left to reach 2000.

How many Iraqis do you suppose have died from this? Why didn't dubya let the Iraqis sort this out? Why was there no real attempt to negotiate a solution?

This is terrible, the whole country is doing a come-apart and Americans are getting kakked.

[Anonymous]

Sadly, another update for November 15.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1193.

807 left to reach 2000.

How many Iraqis do you suppose have died from this? Why didn't dubya let the Iraqis sort this out? Why was there no real attempt to negotiate a solution?

This is terrible, the whole country is doing a come-apart and Americans are getting kakked.
Aahhhhh, shut the fuck up.

[Firecat]

November 16, 2004.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1194.

806 left to reach 2000.

[Firecat]

NOVEMBER 16 UPDATE:

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1200.

800 left to reach 2000

[Firecat]

November 17, 2004.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1203.

797 left to reach 2000.

And Mosul is just beginning.

[Firecat]

November 17 UPDATE

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1211.

789 left to reach 2000.

[Firecat]

November 17 UPDATE

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1212.

788 left to reach 2000.

I RESPECTIVLY REQUEST THE FORUM ADMIN TO REMOVE ME FROM YOUR RANKS. I WILL NOT BE A PART OF FIRECUNTS OR ANYONE ELSE'S SICK GRAB FOR ATTENTION. HAVE A NICE DAY AND MAY FIRECUNTS AND HIS\HER WHOLE FUCKING CONVOLUTED FAMILY ROTT IN HELL!!!


:D

Don't let the door hit your copious, seeping arse on the way out.

[PIGFUCKBINLADEN]

http://img84.exs.cx/img84/9924/price_of_freedom.jpg

[Master Chief]

I think the picture more than describes the sentiment towards the 1.2k+ dead GI's. Yes, they died, but they died in service of their country. They volunteered for this, knowing full well that death could have ended up being their fate, so the numbers are irrelevant.

[Firecat]

You're hallucinating.

The people who joined the service joined knowing that they could lose their lives in a conflict to protect America.

However, they dd not join to lose their lives in a conflict that has nothing to do with national security but instead is a vehicle for the richest, most cynical bastards this nation has ever seen to project imperial and economic power over the mideast.

These people who have died died for NOTHING. Unless you count the billions of dollars of no-bid contracts to dubya's friends.

[Firecat]

PIGFUCKBINLADEN

YOU DELETED MY FUCKING POST'S ASSHOLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GET ME THE FUCK OFF THIS FORUM CUNTSWIPES OR I WILL FORCE THE FUCKING ISSUE. YOU FUCKING HIPOCRITICAL FUCKSWABS. DELETE MY FUCKING ACCOUNT NOW CUM DRIBBLER BEFORE I RIP APART YOUR MOMS FUCKING CRUST INCASED DESEASE INFESTED PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! THERE, THAT SHOULD DO IT.

Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 6
Location: Self-Controlsville

:lol:

I don't think so.

[Firecat]

November 18 UPDATE...

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1216.

784 left to reach 2000.

[Firecat]

November 20, 2004.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1217.

783 left to reach 2000.

But don't worry, your press corps is keeping you informed.

That is, if you want to know about who Dubya is kissing.

[Firecat]

November 20, 2004.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1219.

781 left to reach 2000.

[Firecat]

NOVEMBER 20, 2004 UPDATE.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1121.

779 left to reach 2000.

[Firecat]

Correction:

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1221.

779 left to reach 2000.

[Firecat]

November 22, 2004.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1227.

773 left to reach 2000.

[Firecat]

November 24, 2004.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1229.

771 left to reach 2000.

[Mr. Drags]

firecat, I know you're against the war and want to blame every death on Bush. But the fact is we are there and we're going to be there for a long time. Pulliing our tropps out now would be disastrous.

And the notion of legality is bollocks. We went to war legally, according to the laws of the United States -- sorta. Congress abicated their responsibility to declare war and left it to the president, so if you want to bitch, bitch at them.

Sure, you'll cry about international law, but that's not been settled yet. even though JKoffi has come down against the US, we know why, because he was in bed with the oil for food scandal. But despite that, we are not beholden to the UN

[Master Chief]

You're hallucinating.

The people who joined the service joined knowing that they could lose their lives in a conflict to protect America.

However, they dd not join to lose their lives in a conflict that has nothing to do with national security but instead is a vehicle for the richest, most cynical bastards this nation has ever seen to project imperial and economic power over the mideast.

These people who have died died for NOTHING. Unless you count the billions of dollars of no-bid contracts to dubya's friends.

Then where is the outcry from the MILITARY saying that this war is unjust and has served no purpose except to provide "billions of dollars of no-bid contracts to dubya's friends." There isn't any. Why? Because they are OVER there, fighting and dying every day, and seeing the Iraqi people welcoming them, wanting them to stay there, and so on. I talked with a man who had come back from Iraq, and will be going back shortly, and he said "the only people who DON'T want us over there are the terrorists." Well that right there is reason enough to send more troops over there if you ask me. The terrorists don't want us there because then they have to worry about protecting themselves and can't focus so much on attacking us. Yeah, I know it was OBL that attacked the U.S. and not Saddam, but there is a WORLDWIDE CONSESUS that those people we're killing in Iraq are terrorists. I watched Blackhawk Down again last night, and what they said at the end rings true:

"When I get home and people ask me why I did it, why I fought, I'm not going to say a goddamn thing. Ya know why? Because they can't understand. We don't do it to be heroes, it just sometimes works out that way. We do it for the man on our right, and the man on our left. Nothing more"

[Firecat]

November 24, 2004 UPDATE

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1230.

770 left to reach 2000.

[Firecat]

November 26, 2004.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1232.

768 left to reach 2000.

The reason why there is no outcry from the military is that when you do that in a war zone you are risking your life.

There are 10s of thousands of civilian dead in Iraq. Attacks on Americans have gone from about 50 to 100 per day since Falluja.

And you think they're happy to be liberated? Right.

[Firecat]

November 27, 2004.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1235.

765 left to reach 2000.

[Master Chief]

And you think they're happy to be liberated? Right.

I've sat face to face with two different people who have served in Iraq - both of them have returned within the past 2 months - and they both agreed on two sepereate occasions that the only people who DID NOT WANT US THERE, were the terrorists. 99% of the civilians are glad that we have invaded. So until you can prove otherwise to me... I'll take the 1st hand accounts of soldiers over what I see on TV and read on the internet.

[Firecat]

November 28, 2004.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1237.

763 left to reach 2000.


And obviously anyone you talk to knows everything there is to know about Iraq, eh?

And obviously we should trust your ability to ask the right questions, like, for example, "What's your definition of a terrorist?"

We already know yours... anyone who doesn't think Americans have the right to unilaterallly declare war based on a systematic structure of lies.

[Firecat]

November 29, 2004.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1238.

762 left to reach 2000.

[Mr. Drags]

Again Frecat, i ask you what would you have the US do?

We are in iraq, that can't be undone. what practical decision would you make if it were your choice?

[Firecat]

November 29 2004 UPDATE.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1249.

751 left to reach 2000.

7 left to tie the bloodiest month for American soldiers which was April of this year.

Mr. Drags...

I believe I have come around to agreeing with the position of Gen. Bill Odem. Basically, he says that we have no strategy and are at a major tactical disadvantage. We have no plan to stabilize the situation and not enough boots on the ground to get it done.

So, we pull out, regroup, try to come up with a plan that makes sense, and hopefully enlist the help of some other nations.

That's the best I can come up with, and it's not even my idea.

What do you think of it?

[Master Chief]

And obviously anyone you talk to knows everything there is to know about Iraq, eh?

Never said that... They spoke from the sampling of Iraq that they saw, and considering that it was the area where the fighting was going on, I'd think that the people who's lives were at risk due to "Dubya's war" would be least likely to support the U.S... Yet, they're the ones who love seeing us there. Also, I've yet to see you provide evidence that the majority of Iraqi people DON'T want us there? Sure, there will be some who don't, like the people who's pocketbooks were padded by Saddam, but for the most part, I dont think anybody liked Saddam, and the US took him down...


And obviously we should trust your ability to ask the right questions, like, for example, "What's your definition of a terrorist?"

We already know yours... anyone who doesn't think Americans have the right to unilaterallly declare war based on a systematic structure of lies.

First of all, the average Iraqi citizen doesn't walk around toting an AK-47, nor do they strap bombs to themselves and blow themselves up... Those are the ones who don't want us there, from the large sampling of Iraqis that the men I talked to saw, the majority weren't like that, so I'd assume they're _not_ terrorists? So... provide me some evidence to the contrary please! I've got quite an open mind, and I think logically, so...

[Firecat]

My wife recently went to a lecture by Peggy Gish, author of Iraq: A Journey of Hope and Peace. She has spent years in Iraq working for and with the Iraqi people and is the recipient of the YokoTada Human Rights Award for her work with Christian Peacemaker Teams. She was a personal friend of Margaret Hassan.

Ms Gish said that the overwhelming majority of Iraqis detest the US military presence in Iraq. They view the US military as unwelcome invaders who have brought destruction and death to their country. The US military is known for cultural insensitivity, raw brutality, indiscriminate killings, and collective punishment. The pictures and accounts from Abu Ghraib are the image most Iraqis hold of Americans.

As far as the military itself, the attitudes range from gung ho to resentment and anger with the Bush government for putting American soldiers into this mess. There certainly is not any homogeneous united front in the ranks where everyone is on the same page. And why should there be? The administration has been caught in a dirty lie about the mission. They have been caught in strategic blunders. This is common knowledge, you can find articles by dozens of military strategists, weapons inspectors, and intelligence officials that tell the plain truth... Dubya blew it.

[Sacha]

Peggy Gish is known as a "Christian Peacemaker in Iraq."

Firecat, I'm suprised that you, if you are Christian, hold so much hate in your heart.

Perhaps you need to widen your horizons just a little and learn more about what others in Iraq also feel.

I'll give you some links. Check them out. REAL, LIVE Iraqis who have hope in the future of their country. I'm sure you will find many more links when you check these out.

http://hammorabi.blogspot.com/
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
http://messopotamian.blogspot.com/
http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/

[Firecat]

Whether or not I am a Christian is not the issue.

And your anecdotal evidence does not hold any water.

And furthermore, your personal attack on me for having "hate in my heart" is laughable. But of course, someone like yourself who supports a war in which hundreds of thousands of civilians have been killed, wounded, starved, unemployed, abused, and tortured by the direct actions of your goverment would have no other answer than to accuse someone else of being hateful.

Tsk, tsk. The mask is cracking, your face is beginning to show.

By the way, the first story I read on your site contained a claim that a chemical weapons factory had been found.

Total bullshit.

[Sacha]

"your government"???

Which government is that?



"your site"???

Which site is that?

[Sacha]

Peggy Gish is a mother, grandmother, farmer, and long-time peace and social justice activist from southern Ohio. She has served as a social worker in rural Indiana and inner city Chicago, as co-director of the Appalachian Peace and Justice Network, as a conflict management trainer, and a community mediator. Gish is a member of New Covenant Fellowship, a communal church affiliated with the Church of the Brethren. Since 1995, Gish has been involved with Christian Peacemaker Teams in the West Bank and Iraq.


I'll give you another link. Perhaps you'll also find Peggy there.

http://groups.msn.com/RafahReports

[Firecat]

November 30, 2004.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1250.

750 left to reach 2000.

[Sacha]

Ignorance is bliss. Roll 'em on Firecat. You obviously are only interested in statistics and not REAL people.

Shame!!

[Firecat]

You know, Sacha, if you really had any interest in people you would be doing everything in your power to stop this "war" and working to prevent any future occurences of this nonsense.

Fuck you with your "shame". Where were you when George Dubya Bush lied to the American people and the world about WMDs? Where were you when it was OBVIOUS to anyone with a couple of firing synapses that BushInc was was trying to manufacture an excuse to attack Iraq?

I WILL TELL YOU WHERE I WAS. I was out in the fucking streets demonstrating, I was on the phone, I was on the blogs, I WAS WORKING TO STOP IT. So if I feel any shame at all, it is the shame I feel for being a citizen of this nation full of dumbass fuck tards like you. ASSHOLES who were so fucking stupid that 70% of you thought that Saddam Hussein ordered the 9/11 attacks. MORONS who were IGNORANT about where Saddam Hussein came from and how al-Qaeda benefitted from a direct infusion of money and arms from the Reagan Administration. CRETINS who couldn't see that Dubya was wrapping his ignorant, sorry ass in the flag and telling them that if they didn't play along with his bullshit they were unpatriotic.

By the way, while you were jerking your weenie attacking me, 8 more GIs got killed. That ought to make you happy, you fucking squealing little warpiglet.

Shame? You ought to be ashamed of your species, whatever it is.

DECEMBER 2, 2004.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1258.

742 left to reach 2000.

[Sacha]

You know, Sacha, if you really had any interest in people you would be doing everything in your power to stop this "war" and working to prevent any future occurences of this nonsense.

Fuck you with your "shame". Where were you when George Dubya Bush lied to the American people and the world about WMDs? Where were you when it was OBVIOUS to anyone with a couple of firing synapses that BushInc was was trying to manufacture an excuse to attack Iraq?.

I WILL TELL YOU WHERE I WAS. I was out in the fucking streets demonstrating...........

I'll tell you EXACTLY where I was.... silently hunting and tracking terrorists and keeping you safe so you had the freedom to demonstrate out on the streets. Sometimes, I wonder why I bother to protect the lives of people like you.

[Firecat]

Do me a real favor.

Next time you want to do me a "favor", ask first.

[Mr. Drags]

You know, Sacha, if you really had any interest in people you would be doing everything in your power to stop this "war" and working to prevent any future occurences of this nonsense.

Fuck you with your "shame". Where were you when George Dubya Bush lied to the American people and the world about WMDs? Where were you when it was OBVIOUS to anyone with a couple of firing synapses that BushInc was was trying to manufacture an excuse to attack Iraq?.

I WILL TELL YOU WHERE I WAS. I was out in the fucking streets demonstrating...........

I'll tell you EXACTLY where I was.... silently hunting and tracking terrorists and keeping you safe so you had the freedom to demonstrate out on the streets. Sometimes, I wonder why I bother to protect the lives of people like you.Hey Sacha, glad to see you over here, don't see you at IH enough. You still on the other side of the world kicking terrorist butt?

[Sacha]

Hey Sacha, glad to see you over here, don't see you at IH enough. You still on the other side of the world kicking terrorist butt?

:lol: :wink: :wink:

[Mr. Drags]

Hey Sacha, glad to see you over here, don't see you at IH enough. You still on the other side of the world kicking terrorist butt?

:lol: :wink: :wink:I guess I'll take that as a yes. good on ya then :)

Although I've never asked you, but are/were you USAF, considering your avatar?

[Master Chief]

You know, Sacha, if you really had any interest in people you would be doing everything in your power to stop this "war" and working to prevent any future occurences of this nonsense.

Fuck you with your "shame". Where were you when George Dubya Bush lied to the American people and the world about WMDs? Where were you when it was OBVIOUS to anyone with a couple of firing synapses that BushInc was was trying to manufacture an excuse to attack Iraq?

I WILL TELL YOU WHERE I WAS. I was out in the fucking streets demonstrating, I was on the phone, I was on the blogs, I WAS WORKING TO STOP IT. So if I feel any shame at all, it is the shame I feel for being a citizen of this nation full of dumbass fuck tards like you. ASSHOLES who were so fucking stupid that 70% of you thought that Saddam Hussein ordered the 9/11 attacks. MORONS who were IGNORANT about where Saddam Hussein came from and how al-Qaeda benefitted from a direct infusion of money and arms from the Reagan Administration. CRETINS who couldn't see that Dubya was wrapping his ignorant, sorry ass in the flag and telling them that if they didn't play along with his bullshit they were unpatriotic.

By the way, while you were jerking your weenie attacking me, 8 more GIs got killed. That ought to make you happy, you fucking squealing little warpiglet.

Shame? You ought to be ashamed of your species, whatever it is.

DECEMBER 2, 2004.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1258.

742 left to reach 2000.

Screw your numbers. Seriously. What's the point? So you can be more of a sensationalist? I don't care if the GI Death Toll hits 5,000. Well... I would care, because human life is precious and the loss of it is always horrible, but the statistics aren't what matters. Was this war unethical to begin with? Yes. I totally disagree with Bush's reasons for going in. I do think that more good has come out of this war than bad that went into it however. You overexaggerate the number of people who are as stupid as what you say... Very few, if any, people that I have come into contact with thought that, and I've come into contact with a LOT of people. Certainly not 70%! Maybe you should go back and check your statistics again... The % of people who thought that is small, but vocal, and of course the media will pick up on them and spread them around because it's more sensationalistic. While I did not, and do not, oppose the war, I really wish that President Bush would've been a bit more intelligent in his ways of justifying it and carrying it out.

[Firecat]

DECEMBER 2, 2004 UPDATE

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1261.

739 left to reach 2000.

[Firecat]

December 3 2004 UPDATE:

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1265

735 left to reach 2000.

[Firecat]

DECEMBER 4, 2004.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1266.

734 left to reach 2000.

[WannaBeRSC]

DECEMBER 4, 2004.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1266.

734 left to reach 2000.

Do you want me to come to agreement with terrorists? Do you want me to appease every little Hitler who comes down the pike?

I make no excuses for GW's complete lack of intelligence, we have been lead by far stupider people. I don't apologize much these days.
The Men & Women of my military know they are subject at anytime to violent death or worse.

Where were you on 9/11?
I was at the recruiter with my DD-214.

You have the right to question. Self examination is not a bad thing by any stretch. But the World has changed. My Country will no longer tolerate attacks, nor un-ending threats of same.

Welcome to the Bigs.

[Lefthome]

Firecat is the original


DEATH TROLL

[Firecat]

December 4, 2004 UPDATE:

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1268.

732 left to reach 2000.

[Firecat]

December 5, 2004.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1270.

730 left to reach 2000.

[Firecat]

December 6, 2004.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1273.

727 left to reach 2000.

[Gaius Millhelm]

Firecat is the original


DEATH TROLL

What the fuck is the point of counting each one if you're not even going to inform people about when, were, why these brave men and women are dying????

In particular the way he tell us how many are "left" before we reach 2,000 is distasteful.

I won't be running to whine to the moderators about this, because it's done without overt active trolling as such; but I don't have to respect it either.

[Master Chief]

We mods have left this thread alone primarily because all points of view are accepted. As much as I disagree with it and find it extremely distastefulborderingonnauseating, it stays around because it provides a point for discussion. If we got rid of everything we disagreed with, that'd be rather unfair, doncha think?

[Funky Monkey]

We mods have left this thread alone primarily because all points of view are accepted. As much as I disagree with it and find it extremely distastefulborderingonnauseating, it stays around because it provides a point for discussion. If we got rid of everything we disagreed with, that'd be rather unfair, doncha think?

Yes, but Firecat seems to delight in running right up against the line. That speaks volumes :x

[Firecat]

The plain fact is that you neocons want to supress the truth about the war.

I'm going to tell it, here and every other place where the truth is still allowed to be told. If you are offended by the death toll, then please get off your fucking ass and do something to try to stop the war.

Wars create dead people, not people who try to stop wars.

December 8, 2004.

GI DEATH TOLL HITS 1276.

724 left to reach 2000.

A memo leaked to the press sent by the outgoing CIA bureau chief in Iraq indicates that the rosy picture painted by the Chickenhawk in Charge is a total lie.

Iraq is falling apart at the seams. The country is in chaos, the great majority of it is under control of the insurgency, and a civil war could break out at any moment.

As an indication of how out of control the situation has gotten, the 10 mile stretch of highway between the Green Zone and the Baghdad airport is NOW CLOSED due to the number of insurgent attacks. The only way to get from the airport to the Green Zone is by helicopter... and don't count on being safe there, either.

The most powerful military the world has ever seen cannot pacify and control a 10 mile piece of road after a year and a half.

What does that say to you?

[Funky Monkey]

The plain fact is that you neocons want to supress the truth about the war.

So now we're all neocons?

I think you have us confused with people from some other site. I know a lot of the people here and although we're not all as left leaning as Exit, none of us are really Reds either

[Mr. Drags]

Wars create dead people, not people who try to stop wars.
wrongo FC, without war, you couldn't have people who try andd stop war now could you ;)


As far as the CIA memo, this is coming from the same organization which pushed faulty intelligence that took us into war in the first place. Makes you think doesn't it.


Our death toll could be lower if we didn't restrict our troops from doing their jobs. Much like 'Nam, their hands are tied politically.

[Firecat]

Hands are tied?

Not exactly.
Oh... and please try to reconventionalize your notions about Viet Nam.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

US Marine claims unit killed Iraqi civilians
A former US Marine said his unit killed more than 30 innocent Iraqi civilians in just two days, in graphic testimony to a Canadian tribunal probing an asylum claim by a US Army deserter.

Former Marine Sergeant Jimmy Massey appeared as a witness to bolster claims by fugitive paratrooper Jeremy Hinzman that he walked out on the 82nd Airborne Division to avoid being ordered to commit war crimes in Iraq.

Mr Hinzman, 26, claims he would face persecution if sent home to the United States, in a politically charged case which could set a precedent for at least two other US deserters seeking asylum in Canada.

Mr Massey told Canada's Immigration and Refugee Board (IRB) that men under his command in the 3rd battalion, 7th Marines, killed "30 plus" civilians within 48 hours while on checkpoint duty in Baghdad.

"I do know that we killed innocent civilians," Mr Massey told the tribunal, relating the chaotic days after the US-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003.

Mr Massey said that in some incidents, Iraqi civilians were killed by between 200 and 500 rounds pumped into four separate cars which each failed to respond to a single warning shot and respond to hand signals at a Baghdad checkpoint.

At the time, US soldiers feared suicide bombers would try to ram checkpoints, he said.

Searches found no weapons in the vehicles or evidence that those killed were anything but innocent civilians, he said.

He also said Marines killed four unarmed demonstrators, and more Iraqis the next day during another spell of checkpoint duty in the occupied Iraqi capital.

"I was never clear on who was the enemy and who was not," said Mr Massey.

"When you don't know who the enemy is, what are you doing there?" asked the former Marine, later honourably discharged from the service with severe depression and post traumatic stress disorder.

Mr Hinzman earlier argued in the tribunal, which started on Monday and was due to end Wednesday, that he gradually realised after joining the Army in 2001 that he could not bring himself to kill another person.

"I was faced with being deployed to Iraq to do what the infantry does, kill people, and I had no justification for doing so," said Mr Hinzman.

Mr Hinzman and his wife and two-year-old son arrived in Canada early this year, after deserting from his unit, an action which carries a maximum five-year term in jail.

The South Dakota-born soldier is claiming refugee status based on his contention that he was right to refuse to fight in a war which he says was illegal and violated human rights and the Geneva Conventions.

He also claims he would face persecution if returned home to face desertion charges.

Mr Hinzman first requested conscientious objector status in 2002 before learning he was to be posted to Afghanistan, where he eventually made 18 combat parachute jumps.

The following year, the request was rejected, and late in 2003 he learned he was to be deployed to Iraq, prompting his flight to Canada.

Odds against him winning the case are slim, as no such verdict has ever been handed to a US soldier here or to a combatant in a non-conscription army.

The IRB was set up to consider the merits of refugee claims at arms length from the Canadian Government.

Presiding member Brian Goodman signalled on Tuesday he would ask for written submissions from Mr Hinzman's counsel, a government lawyer and a refugee officer, thereby ruling out a judgement on the case on Wednesday.

Mr Goodman will decide whether Hinzman would face persecution if sent back to the United States by dint of political or religious beliefs or his status as an objector to US military action.

The judgement will also question whether Mr Hinzman will face "cruel and unusual" punishment, during what would likely be a long prison term.

-AFP

[Firecat]

You didn't think that the Bush Administration BAMBOOZLED people into thinking that Saddam was DIRECTLY INVOLVED WITH THE 9/11 ATTACK.

Well, if they didn't get it from the Bushies, WHY DON'T YOU TELL US WHERE THEY GOT IT?

<I know the answer to this one>

They got it from AN UNNAMED WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN SPEAKING ON THE CONDITION OF ANONYMITY.

You'll be happy to know that I've changed my mind about posting here. I'm not going to hang out in a place where the mods are openly hostile to the posters.

But read this article. It has the statistic you were disputing but Dana missed out on where the misconception came from. She must not have been paying attention... too busy hanging on every lying word and trial balloon floated by the BushInc liars.

If you don't believe me that this bullshit came from the Bush Liars, read this... he said the word "terror" 30 times in a 30 minute press conference.

http://www.bushcountry.org/bush_speeches/president_bush_speech_030703.htm

You're nothing but a bunch of ignorant stooges.

Fuckya.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hussein Link to 9/11 Lingers in Many Minds

By Dana Milbank and Claudia Deane
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, September 6, 2003; Page A01

Nearing the second anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, seven in 10 Americans continue to believe that Iraq's Saddam Hussein had a role in the attacks, even though the Bush administration and congressional investigators say they have no evidence of this.

Sixty-nine percent of Americans said they thought it at least likely that Hussein was involved in the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, according to the latest Washington Post poll. That impression, which exists despite the fact that the hijackers were mostly Saudi nationals acting for al Qaeda, is broadly shared by Democrats, Republicans and independents.

The main reason for the endurance of the apparently groundless belief, experts in public opinion say, is a deep and enduring distrust of Hussein that makes him a likely suspect in anything related to Middle East violence. "It's very easy to picture Saddam as a demon," said John Mueller, a political scientist at Ohio State University and an expert on public opinion and war. "You get a general fuzz going around: People know they don't like al Qaeda, they are horrified by September 11th, they know this guy is a bad guy, and it's not hard to put those things together."

Although that belief came without prompting from Washington, Democrats and some independent experts say Bush exploited the apparent misconception by implying a link between Hussein and the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the months before the war with Iraq. "The notion was reinforced by these hints, the discussions that they had about possible links with al Qaeda terrorists," said Andrew Kohut, a pollster who leads the nonpartisan Pew Research Center for the People and the Press.

The poll's findings are significant because they help to explain why the public continues to support operations in Iraq despite the setbacks and bloodshed there. Americans have more tolerance for war when it is provoked by an attack, particularly one by an all-purpose villain such as Hussein. "That's why attitudes about the decision to go to war are holding up," Kohut said.

Bush's opponents say he encouraged this misconception by linking al Qaeda to Hussein in almost every speech on Iraq. Indeed, administration officials began to hint about a Sept. 11-Hussein link soon after the attacks. In late 2001, Vice President Cheney said it was "pretty well confirmed" that attack mastermind Mohamed Atta met with a senior Iraqi intelligence official.

Speaking on NBC's "Meet the Press," Cheney was referring to a meeting that Czech officials said took place in Prague in April 2000. That allegation was the most direct connection between Iraq and the Sept. 11 attacks. But this summer's congressional report on the attacks states, "The CIA has been unable to establish that [Atta] left the United States or entered Europe in April under his true name or any known alias."

Bush, in his speeches, did not say directly that Hussein was culpable in the Sept. 11 attacks. But he frequently juxtaposed Iraq and al Qaeda in ways that hinted at a link. In a March speech about Iraq's "weapons of terror," Bush said: "If the world fails to confront the threat posed by the Iraqi regime, refusing to use force, even as a last resort, free nations would assume immense and unacceptable risks. The attacks of September the 11th, 2001, showed what the enemies of America did with four airplanes. We will not wait to see what terrorists or terrorist states could do with weapons of mass destruction."

Then, in declaring the end of major combat in Iraq on May 1, Bush linked Iraq and the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks: "The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September the 11, 2001 -- and still goes on. That terrible morning, 19 evil men -- the shock troops of a hateful ideology -- gave America and the civilized world a glimpse of their ambitions."

Moments later, Bush added: "The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We've removed an ally of al Qaeda, and cut off a source of terrorist funding. And this much is certain: No terrorist network will gain weapons of mass destruction from the Iraqi regime, because the regime is no more. In these 19 months that changed the world, our actions have been focused and deliberate and proportionate to the offense. We have not forgotten the victims of September the 11th -- the last phone calls, the cold murder of children, the searches in the rubble. With those attacks, the terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States. And war is what they got."

A number of nongovernment officials close to the Bush administration have made the link more directly. Richard N. Perle, who until recently was chairman of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board, long argued that there was Iraqi involvement, calling the evidence "overwhelming."

Some Democrats said that although Bush did not make the direct link to the 2001 attacks, his implications helped to turn the public fury over Sept. 11 into support for war against Iraq. "You couldn't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein," said Democratic tactician Donna Brazile. "Every member of the administration did the drumbeat. My mother said if you repeat a lie long enough, it becomes a gospel truth. This one became a gospel hit."

In a speech Aug. 7, former vice president Al Gore cited Hussein's culpability in the attacks as one of the "false impressions" given by a Bush administration making a "systematic effort to manipulate facts in service to a totalistic ideology."

Bush's defenders say the administration's rhetoric was not responsible for the public perception of Hussein's involvement in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. While Hussein and al Qaeda come from different strains of Islam and Hussein's secularism is incompatible with al Qaeda fundamentalism, Americans instinctively lump both foes together as Middle Eastern enemies. "The intellectual argument is there is a war in Iraq and a war on terrorism and you have to separate them, but the public doesn't do that," said Matthew Dowd, a Bush campaign strategist. "They see Middle Eastern terrorism, bad people in the Middle East, all as one big problem."

A number of public-opinion experts agreed that the public automatically blamed Iraq, just as they would have blamed Libya if a similar attack had occurred in the 1980s. There is good evidence for this: On Sept. 13, 2001, a Time/CNN poll found that 78 percent suspected Hussein's involvement -- even though the administration had not made a connection. The belief remained consistent even as evidence to the contrary emerged.

"You can say Bush should be faulted for not correcting every single misapprehension, but that's something different than saying they set out deliberately to deceive," said Duke University political scientist Peter D. Feaver. "Since the facts are all over the place, Americans revert to a judgment: Hussein is a bad guy who would do stuff to us if he could."

Key administration figures have largely abandoned any claim that Iraq was involved in the 2001 attacks. "I'm not sure even now that I would say Iraq had something to do with it," Deputy Defense Secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz, a leading hawk on Iraq, said on the Laura Ingraham radio show on Aug. 1.

A top White House official told The Washington Post on July 31: "I don't believe that the evidence was there to suggest that Iraq had played a direct role in 9/11." The official added: "Anything is possible, but we hadn't ruled it in or ruled it out. There wasn't evidence to substantiate that claim."

But the public continues to embrace the connection.

In follow-up interviews, poll respondents were generally unsure why they believed Hussein was behind the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, often describing it as an instinct that came from news reports and their long-standing views of Hussein. For example, Peter Bankers, 59, a New York film publicist, figures his belief that Hussein was behind the attacks "has probably been fed to me in some PR way," but he doesn't know how. "I think that the whole group of people, those with anti-American feelings, they all kind of cooperated with each other," he said.

Similarly, Kim Morrison, 32, a teacher from Plymouth, Ind., described her belief in Hussein's guilt as a "gut feeling" shaped by television. "From what we've heard from the media, it seems like what they feel is that Saddam and the whole al Qaeda thing are connected," she said.

Deborah Tannen, a Georgetown University professor of linguistics who has studied Bush's rhetoric, said it is impossible to know but "plausible" that Bush's words furthered such public impressions. "Clearly, he's using language to imply a connection between Saddam Hussein and September 11th," she said.

"There is a specific manipulation of language here to imply a connection." Bush, she said, seems to imply that in Iraq "we have gone to war with the terrorists who attacked us."

Tannen said even a gentle implication would be enough to reinforce Americans' feelings about Hussein. "If we like the conclusion, we're much less critical of the logic," she said.

The Post poll, conducted Aug. 7-11, found that 62 percent of Democrats, 80 percent of Republicans and 67 percent of independents suspected a link between Hussein and 9/11. In addition, eight in 10 Americans said it was likely that Hussein had provided assistance to al Qaeda, and a similar proportion suspected he had developed weapons of mass destruction.


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[Master Chief]

I do not want you to stop posting here, quite the opposite in fact. While I do find many of your posts rather offensive, I think it provides a good point for discussion, as well as represents your point of view.
I said I find them "nauseating" because you seem to be so flippant and careless about the numbers of people dying, and more interested in making Pres. Bush look like a moron. If you were to post up a tidbit about each individual soldier who died (difficult, yes, but at least a name and/or home state?) it would be appreciated and respected rather than despised by those with differing points of view. If you want to talk about hostility, just take a look at all your previous posts, every single one of them has been hostile towards someone, whether it be another member here or anyone who you consider a "neocon." I never intended to come across as "hostile" and I apologize if I did. I was merely stating that some of the material you posted, and your reasons behing posting it (at least the reasons one could logically deduce) were not at all repectful, nor decent.

[kidcanuck]

I'm not sure where we are with the body bag count but they took a hit today.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20041222/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq


The Fvckface of Defense said he'd be hand writing out condolence letters and he's going to be busy over the next few days. Sadly the boys and girls who lose limbs and who are fvcked up for life don't even get a letter from Dumbsfelt.

A suicide bomber was allowed to walk right into a mess hall..?

And Bush is defending the Fvckface of Defense.

lol

I can't help but laugh at him.

[kidcanuck]

Marines suffer highest suicide rate in 5 years.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/arms_marines_suicide_dc

[kidcanuck]

Bush's war screws soldiers like no war before.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/20/national/20riley.html?ex=1104520687&ei=1&en=e868d66ff805f708

[kidcanuck]

Four more hand written Happy Holiday cards being sent out by Donald Dumbsfelt today.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20041223/ts_afp/iraq.041223184704&e=1

Make that seven.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20041223/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

And the days not over yet.

[kidcanuck]

Suicide bomber kills 9 wounds 39.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20041227/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq


Roadside bomb kills US soldier and wounds another.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20041227/wl_nm/iraq_usa_soldier_dc&cid=574&ncid=1480

[exitwound]

looks like the Sunnis are boycotting it and Zarqawi/AQ have some fun surprises in store for the next few weeks :evil:

[WannaBeRSC]

Where's Firecat? I miss the little Pussy Inferno.

As long as we are in Iraq, our people die, our money is spent,... I don't think we should have gone in at the time we did. Iknow we should NEVER go into a situation like this without any type of pre-planning, like we have. I mean, my god, didn't we learn anything from Vietnam? And the Provisional Authority!!! Who did these dumbasses think they were? And MI, CIA, NGO Intel Groups... Christ, what a snafu.

Yet, here we are. And fight we must... but not JUST where you may think.

We claim to be bringing freedom to Iraq while cutting our own freedoms to shreads and using our own Constitution as toilet paper.
All because our people are cowards and will elect only those people who echo their fears with laws that make slaves of us all.

I have hope for the Urkraine. They lived as slaves to the Soviets for generations, now they taste freedom. May they be willing to die for it.

May the same passion for freedom ring in this Country once again.

[commonam]

Where's Firecat? I miss the little Pussy Inferno.

As long as we are in Iraq, our people die, our money is spent,... I don't think we should have gone in at the time we did. Iknow we should NEVER go into a situation like this without any type of pre-planning, like we have. I mean, my god, didn't we learn anything from Vietnam? And the Provisional Authority!!! Who did these dumbasses think they were? And MI, CIA, NGO Intel Groups... Christ, what a snafu.

Yet, here we are. And fight we must... but not JUST where you may think.

We claim to be bringing freedom to Iraq while cutting our own freedoms to shreads and using our own Constitution as toilet paper.
All because our people are cowards and will elect only those people who echo their fears with laws that make slaves of us all.

I have hope for the Urkraine. They lived as slaves to the Soviets for generations, now they taste freedom. May they be willing to die for it.

May the same passion for freedom ring in this Country once again.
Amidst that hunk of uncritical, though not passsionless, thinking lies an interesting statement: "I don't think we should have gone in at the time we did."

When, then? Or was that just a slip?

If you think it NEVER should have been done, then fine. Ingnorantly generalize US citizens as "slaves" for whatever reasons you can conjure. But, if you think there is/was a place and time for the ouster of Saddam and/or democracy in the ME, then I'd really like to know what criteria you would use to determine it. That might be a basis for conversation in an otherwise deranged and silly troller's thread, with a proported purpose to count the bodies from only one side.

For what it's worth, I think the whole "fighting for Iraqi freedom" bit is overplayed and premature. Now, and hopefully over the next couple of years, we're fighting primarily for Iraqi democracy. That's only a foundation block for freedom, and not a guarantee. Let's keep it real, and remember that no society became democratic for free. And time is relevant. It don't happen overnight, if at all.

[Noovuss]

Some things never change!

[commonam]

Some things never change!
Which things are you referring to?

[Eat Me]

This thread was retarded on IH and it's even more retarded here on TBH.

Today's successful elections in Iraq are a turning point for the world. Shroeder and Chirac are in shame! The world is witness to the rightousness of the US as the greater provider of peace, freedom and prosperity in the world. Europe more than any other should have known this and now they are ashamed!!! Iraq is truly free and the world is having an epiphany about the rightousness of America!!!

[involved]

Today gave some Iraqi's peace, some hope and a little bit of comfort and that's not something that can be measured considering what the Iraqi people have been through,for other's it gave little comfort and more to worry about,the cultural divisions run deep and will not quail over night.North America saw many civil wars both in Canada and in the United States before we aquired our respective democracy's.For the people of Falluja it will fuel more resentment that the murderous American Occupiers have fooled the people of Iraq because they know America's true colours,they will continue to burn in their grief,in what must be unbearble circumstances.unbearable. For American troops it is a day for well deserved pride and hope too that maybe they are one day closer going home to their families. For the Bush administration it will be more stupid empty speeches,can this guy tell his speech writers that there are a lot of pretty sentences but there is No INFORMATION,empty nobility.So I'm am happy that there was some joy in Iraq today but I'm getting ready for the next dose of reality. quote="Eat Me"]

Today's successful elections in Iraq are a turning point for the world. Shroeder and Chirac are in shame! The world is witness to the rightousness of the US as the greater provider of peace, freedom and prosperity in the world. Europe more than any other should have known this and now they are ashamed!!! Iraq is truly free and the world is having an epiphany about the rightousness of America!!![/quote]

[Pispas]

There's just an itsy-bitsy problem with that great new democracy in Iraq. It's going to be driven by clerics (why do I feel like a parrot?) and the womenfolk -- those who were able to expose their brain to the air without a black rag keeping it dense -- are anything but happy.

Listened to a discussion today (just how DO I manage to add up 1 + 1 time and time again? ... just like then ... when the ground was made fertile for the erratic brainwaves of the short-sighted and far-fetched), errrr. where was I? Oh yeah, Iraqi women living abroad more or less boycotted the election. They are very angry that the relatively 'free' and advanced position of their sisters is being sawn out from under their feet by old deluded men with long beards wearing dresses.

I think when the novelty wears off, the new government in Iraq will be much like the old one; but less effective. (Cough, cough ....)

Corrupt, incapable and unable to self-administrate AND partial to condemning all women back beneath the black tent and out of public life. I kid you not.

The word democracy a democracy does not make. It's got a nice ring to it, that's all. What would be the right term for a style of government imposed by the turret of a tank and a lying SOB in an oval-shaped office.

The people don't change, not in Iraq and not in the oval-shaped office.

"The speech Bush should have made" .... I'll selfishly post it in a new thread. And anyway, it's pissing off time. All this lovey-dovey stuff is giving me the creeps. :shock:

[SCHICK]

[quote="Master Chief" If we got rid of everything we disagreed with, that'd be rather unfair, doncha think?[/quote]
Undemocratic comes to mind......come to think of it .....thats exactly what the US did in Iraq.....under the spurious lie of WMD!
I have been reluctant to become involved in a thread which basically highlights the death of our youth, however I defend Firecats right to say it,... wether you believe he is correct (I do) or not, it gets your attention. I think trolling is a bit harsh especially when he is putting forth the facts.
In conclusion the election in Iraq will demonstrate just how much they(Iraqi's) appreciate our youth dying for them and Democracy Dubya style.

[Nero]

...even a majority of Americans believed that the political process as being practiced by the UN should be allowed to run its course. The weapons inspections were underway with several UN teams on the ground. It is now obvious that those teams and that process worked...

No junior. You and a few of your narrow-minded buddies are the only ones who still don't realize the UN wasn't doing anything in Iraq except skimming money and providing cushy jobs for their cronies. But it's good to see how our gentle people are so full of hate that they cheer every time one of our soldiers dies. What kind of sicko relishes the death of every soldier and counts it down just because he's full of hate for our president?

I wonder what you'd think of a conservative who was counting down the deaths of liberals. I suppose he would be an ignorant, blood-thirsty hate-monger. But when you do it I guess it's OK because you're enlightened enough to know who deserves to die. You people have a mental illness. Seek help quickly.

[Nero]

...These people who have died died for NOTHING. Unless you count the billions of dollars of no-bid contracts to dubya's friends.

I'll bet you have no idea that Halliburton got no bid contracts when Clinton bombed Serbia also. I'll bet you have no idea that Halliburton is the only corporation of its kind with the resources to handle a job that big so there's nobody to bid against them. But it sounds so good for your talking points doesn't it? Just don't go around thinking you're really open-minded or tolerant.

I'll bet you're completely oblivious to the fact that Marc Rich's former company Esso is implicated in the oil for food scandal. You know who Marc Rich is right? The one that Clinton pardoned and whose wife donated more money to the Clinton campaign than Enron did to Bush.

I'll bet all that stuff goes right over your head. Why don't you just admit you hate capitalism because you're too damn worthless and lazy to make a living at it. Your type cracks me up. Too damn worthless to make something of yourself so you turn it around and wax all high and mighty and blame the system. It's amusing how potent a person's defense mechanisms can be.

[PIGFUCKBINLADEN]

Heh, my Id Is now active after all this time.

Oh the irony.........

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a76/pfbI/protester.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a76/pfbI/dink.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a76/pfbI/FIRESHIT.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a76/pfbI/michael_mooreE.jpg
http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/789/firecunt3wz.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a76/pfbI/BUSH.jpg

[Hobbes]

Dude, the thread was dead here. FC has not been here for months. Please let's leave it that way.

[PIGFUCKBINLADEN]

Dude, the thread was dead here. FC has not been here for months. Please let's leave it that way.

Actually, I was just pasing through.

ID Never worked since I shit in this thread and got banned. :) . Just noticed tonight it was active and thought I would do a "drive by"

[al_gy]

the rest go to heaven....

[ABU HAMZA]

http://www.aljazeerah.info/News%20photo%20negatives/2006%20News%20Photo%20Originals/June/saezcoffin15jn6ap.jpg
A U.S. Army Honor Guard ceremonially folds a flag over the coffin containing the body of U.S. Army Cpl. Sergio Antonio Mercedes Saez during his funeral in San Pedro de Macoris, Dominican Republic, in this file photo from Feb. 20, 2006. The Pentagon confirmed Thursday that 2,500 U.S. servicemen and women have died in Iraq since the war began in 2003. (AP Photo/Ramon Espinosa, File, 6/15/06).

[GBA]

Actually, I was just pasing through.

ID Never worked since I shit in this thread and got banned. :) . Just noticed tonight it was active and thought I would do a "drive by"

YAY !!!!
:woohoo:

Hiya Pigfuck !

[Electric]

YAY !!!!
:woohoo:

Hiya Pigfuck !

Applauding for that one being back when he's been banned is pretty odd, as much as you don't get along with DB, who's probably not near as bad. (OK, he's not even trying, I'm sure! )

Old Dutch was banned and slipped in for a while too, and he was at least funny! Of course, I wouldn't have tolerated his nasty 'sexist' stuff, either. That's more a power thing, nothing 'sexy' about what he did to the gals.

It's pretty sorry when one's main claim to fame is being the nastiest, most obnoxious, or grossest poster. What's with that, anyway?

[GBA]

It's pretty sorry when one's main claim to fame is being the nastiest, most obnoxious, or grossest poster. What's with that, anyway?

Nyar's still got the most obnoxious, or grossest poster award, from his derail all threads with mutilated bodies phase.

[PIGFUCKBINLADEN]

Applauding for that one being back when he's been banned is pretty odd, as much as you don't get along with DB, who's probably not near as bad. (OK, he's not even trying, I'm sure! )

Old Dutch was banned and slipped in for a while too, and he was at least funny! Of course, I wouldn't have tolerated his nasty 'sexist' stuff, either. That's more a power thing, nothing 'sexy' about what he did to the gals.

It's pretty sorry when one's main claim to fame is being the nastiest, most obnoxious, or grossest poster. What's with that, anyway?


You probably are still A FUCKING IDIOT.


YOINK!!

And for you...... A big....
FUCK YOINK!!!!!!!!!!!

[short_circuit]

You probably are still A FUCKING IDIOT.


YOINK!!

And for you...... A big....
FUCK YOINK!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi PIG. Dude, you have been out of touch, Electric has not posted here for quite a while..! :mrgreen:

[hussein_005]

Ante it up to 40,000 pigf'cks ! :asshole:

[short_circuit]

Over exaggeration, huss…! :ohno:

[al_gy]

Hmmmm.....Let's start by factoring those that die here on the mainland and other countries excluding Iraq and Afghanistan who are not counted as casualties of war. The list probably would grow to 8000. Then add the terminally ill, the mutants, brain dead, plegics, suicides, insane, murderers to be, ...hmmm 40,000 plus,...Gulf War I.....another 360,000,...........< 400,000 ?....:suckers:

edit to perhaps a million or two....

[short_circuit]

There is a distinction between being dead and not being dead, the starting title of this thread is “The countdown to 2000 dead GIs in dubya's war thread.” The thread was created in 11-15-2004. Now to this date, there is about 4000 dead GIs and not the over exaggeration of 40.000 dead GIs..!

But has you say al_gy, if every death was counted, not just the GIs, the numbers would be very high.

[al_gy]

There is a distinction between being dead and not being dead, the starting title of this thread is “The countdown to 2000 dead GIs in dubya's war thread.” The thread was created in 11-15-2004. Now to this date, there is about 4000 dead GIs and not the over exaggeration of 40.000 dead GIs..!

But has you say al_gy, if every death was counted, not just the GIs, the numbers would be very high....but I am talking of GI's and exGI's /